Episode 6: The State of Mental Health in Canada
Hello. I'm Jessica Samuels, and welcome to episode 6 of A Way Forward podcast presented by Beam Credit Union. I'd like to acknowledge today that we are on the traditional ancestral and unceded lands of the Okanagan, Siilux people. CEO for CMHA Kelowna, Mike Golik, joins me once again. And today we're going to talk about a recent report on the mental health of Canadians and how since the pandemic, it has gotten significantly worse.
Jessica Samuels:Thanks for being here, Mike. Well, the state of mental health report, the state of mental health in Canada report has been unveiled and the findings. I mean, I don't mind saying it, they're troubling. We're going to get into some of that. First, I wouldn't mind just taking a step back.
Jessica Samuels:And you explaining to us the the who, what, why, Why was this report even done, in the first place?
Mike Gawliuk:Yeah. For sure. So who, was CMHA National who's released this report, who, you know, has a mandate to look at the federal level of investment and what's going across Canada. Part of the why is that, Canada has signed on to the United Nations International Human Rights Treaties and, commit to ensuring that all people in Canada have the right to the highest attainable standard of health and to nondiscrimination based on disability. The reality is mental health care is a basic human right.
Mike Gawliuk:Mhmm. What this report really unearths is that that's not being lived up to.
Jessica Samuels:Right.
Mike Gawliuk:And, ultimately, there's a lot of work that has to be done in this country to get to that place.
Jessica Samuels:Mhmm. So Canada said yes through the United Nations Human Rights that health and what's embedded in that is mental health, cough cough, is a human right. Now let's examine it and it's we're not doing a very good job as a country.
Mike Gawliuk:No. I I mean, you know, what the report will will show and and and will demonstrate is is just that. There is no universal mental health care in this country. And, what that means is, there's 2,500,000 people, in Canada that aren't getting access to the required help that they need. That's the equivalent of the population of Saskatchewan and Manitoba put together.
Mike Gawliuk:People's mental health is 3 times worse than it was pre pandemic, which again is a significant concern. And we're seeing certainly mental health. 38% of indigenous people report that their mental health is fair to poor. And certainly youth, which is a population that we're very familiar with and provide some support. Unfortunately, 57% of young people aged 18 to 24 have indicated that cost is an obstacle to getting mental health care.
Mike Gawliuk:And and I think as we've talked through other episodes and we talk about, you know, where can you turn for help, you know, we've talked about the fact that if you've got means, to go and Right. Pay for a counselor, if you're employed and you have a benefit package, you can access care through that. And then or you're reliant upon the public system, which sometimes is exceptionally overwhelmed, under underfunded, obviously. And that's why in part, we're in the situation that we're in.
Jessica Samuels:Three times worse than before the pandemic. Was this so was this study done this year? Was it done in 2024?
Mike Gawliuk:Yes.
Jessica Samuels:So that's really interesting to me because I feel like if we had done the study 2 years ago, I'd be like, yeah, well, okay, we're still in the pandemic. And when I say that I want to talk about the the physical, you know, like quarantine, putting on masks, COVID. That's what I mean by in the pandemic. And so I'd understand it. It's interesting that few years out, I don't know why.
Jessica Samuels:I mean, I don't know when we can say the pandemic ended, but I feel like we're not as in-depth with those symptoms and those societal restrictions that we put on ourselves. We're not still in that. We are worse off from mental health.
Mike Gawliuk:From a mental health standpoint, yeah. That's certainly what's being identified. I think when you look at it, it comes back to things that we've we've talked about. Right? The intersectionality of a number of different of issue a number of different issues that are taking place within society.
Mike Gawliuk:You know, the economic challenges, the affordability piece. Right? Mhmm. That's something that we've talked about is having an impact on on on people's mental health. We've got a significant issue when it comes to drug poisoning, and I think what this report shows that, BC really is ground 0 for the drug poisoning crisis with about 33% of people who have died in the country, being from British Columbia.
Mike Gawliuk:So you take those factors into play, you take into the fact that, you know the issues around the environment, forest fires, all those pieces, like those are all factors that combine to cause people to, you know, be impacted from a mental health standpoint.
Jessica Samuels:And so would we then assume because some of these factors were there prior to the pandemic and that, you know, let's just say 2019 and before, but is it the piling on of the ripple out effects of the pandemic? I mean, certainly we know the cost of living has increased. Kelowna has not been widely known as a place that is A, affordable or B, easy to get affordable housing. So is it are those things worse as well, which is what's piling on to our mental health?
Mike Gawliuk:Well, yeah. I I mean, I think certainly those things have, played a part. I mean, we had a we had a major fire here in 2023. Right? There's no doubt about that and the impact that that has on, our communities.
Mike Gawliuk:The affordability, of housing has continued to, you know, grow as time has gone Time has gone on and certainly, wages and salaries aren't necessarily keeping up with that. Mhmm. Right? The the cost of groceries, all the things that we know about, I think are kind of like this. How would I describe it?
Mike Gawliuk:This really, it's got a snowball effect. Yeah. And, and it's and it's and it's super concerning.
Jessica Samuels:It's a lot. So okay. So let's dig in a little bit deeper to some of these things. So what's interesting is that this was measured or grouped together through 24 indicators, this report, and they were there were 24 indicators and it was grouped together in 5 areas. So, so stigma, discrimination and mistreatment within the health system, access to services, the overall population, the mental health, how they deem to be have their mental health.
Jessica Samuels:And this one I kind of saved because it's going to lead into the next. The government leadership, the investment that is being made into mental health addiction and substance use. There's some interesting things about those numbers. So first of all, talk about the Canadian stat and then we'll drill it down to what BC looks like.
Mike Gawliuk:Yeah. Well, what they found is that through this study, basically, on average, the provinces are spending 6.3% of their budgets on mental health and substance use care. The number needs to be closer to 12%.
Jessica Samuels:How do they get to the 12 percent? How do we know that?
Mike Gawliuk:They look at they look at population. They look at prevalence of illness and they map it out in terms of what that looks like. Other jurisdictions, certainly when we look across the world, France is at 15%. Germany's at 11%. We're, again, on average, not keeping up.
Mike Gawliuk:Now one of the pieces that was as well in the report is that the number, for BC was unable we were there wasn't able to come up with a number. Now the reality around that is simply that we've had a mental health mental health and addictions ministry in the province. We've had a health ministry in the province. Mental health spending comes out of the health care budget. So the ability to measure those numbers, taking the numbers for MMHA doesn't speak to the amount of money that's going out into services or anything else because that ministry was a policy ministry.
Mike Gawliuk:It wasn't a funding ministry. So it's not like, it's not like you know, there's, wolves being pulled over people's eyes. It's the reality of where how the system is set up and where that spending is coming from wasn't readily available for this report.
Jessica Samuels:Okay. No. No. How I mean, thank you for the answer and the explanation. It feels weird, though, when you're looking at the report to to to to see that there's there's no way to pull that data from BC.
Jessica Samuels:And it does. It makes you feel like, okay, wait, what is going on here? How come we don't have this information? And then we go back to all this stuff that you just talked about, where it's like, you know, the opioid overdose crisis, homelessness, you know, the mental health, you know, the the numbers, the indigenous people, the youth people thinking, okay. So how are we gonna start measuring this?
Jessica Samuels:Because, we've got a problem.
Mike Gawliuk:Well, I'd say I'd say certainly we have a problem. I I think, going back to that comment, we've just been through a provincial election. Mhmm. Certainly, one of the things, that's happened is that, the Ministry of Mental Health and Addictions has now folded back into health. I mean, the reasons the reasons for that are many.
Mike Gawliuk:I mean, ultimately, again, that that ministry was a policy ministry. It was designed to advocate and bring other ministries within government together to to be able to work collaboratively around addressing mental health. The fact that, the decision was made to roll it back into health would suggest that, ultimately, it didn't have the impact or or the efficacy that it was originally hoped for or intended that it would.
Jessica Samuels:Right. I was looking at one article from news outlet and they called it the 7 year experiment. Well, they said failed, but the implication is it was not a success. And that's what we would kind of glean that it didn't achieve the results anywhere near we want it to. So let's go back to what other provinces are doing is having it within the Ministry of Health in that same
Mike Gawliuk:bucket. And going back to going back to what we've done historically as well.
Jessica Samuels:Okay. So when we look at the stats for B. C. And some of the other things that just because we're talking about BC now and and maybe some of the things that weren't achieved, what are some other BC stats that stood out for you where we're falling behind?
Mike Gawliuk:Well, again, I'd say the big piece is is around the toxic drug crisis. Right? I would reinforce that that ultimately is something that's very much BC specific. Mhmm. It's, and it's something that's serious and there's something that we need to to ultimately deal with.
Mike Gawliuk:One of the other things that was a concerning perspective was that, the rates of stigma and discrimination, were the highest in BC, out of Canada, which is, which is cause for concern.
Jessica Samuels:Stigma and discrimination as it pertains to mental health, addiction, and substance use? Okay. The highest in Canada is in BC. Okay.
Mike Gawliuk:Interesting. That was that's that's concerning.
Jessica Samuels:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my next natural question is why? I I don't know if you have that answer but
Mike Gawliuk:I I don't know if I have that answer. I mean, I think I can speculate a little bit. I mean, certainly, what we've seen in our communities, what we've seen in terms of the challenges of, you know, decriminalization, substance use, people that are people that are unhoused, You know, the reality is, and I think our most recent provincial election showed us, that there's, that people aren't happy with the way things are. And so you can see some of that potentially leading into that stat. That's that's one of the, like, the sort of educated guesses that it would make under the circumstances.
Jessica Samuels:Right. So we're talking about some of the issues that are in B. C. When we talk about the opioid crisis and the affordability. You referencing the recent events in the last few years, but I just going to be a bit of a dog with a bone on this.
Jessica Samuels:And there's some other stats that are broken out and they broke out all the stats for all the provinces so we can see how Canada fares against other provinces and across Canada. But if we don't have accurate measurement for this, for this province, how do we know that what we did find is accurate? Was that a circular question? But you know what I mean? Like on on so explain to me the difference between what they couldn't measure and what they did measure.
Mike Gawliuk:Well, what they did measure was a series of publicly available public health measures. That's how they broke it down into those five measures. So that's where that data came from.
Jessica Samuels:Okay.
Mike Gawliuk:Of course, I can understand your your query as it were about if we can't say how much money has actually been spent or what percentage has been spent in British Columbia, then then how is the other data valid? Mhmm. I mean, this is this is data that is is consistent across the study and publicly available nationally. Mhmm.
Jessica Samuels:Right. And so some of these other things that I'm noticing for this province as you you mentioned, the perceived mental health here in BC is is slightly worse or the percentage is slightly higher. However you want to express that is poor or fair. Substance abuse, as we noted, rates of hospitalization due to self harm. This this is significantly higher than the national average.
Jessica Samuels:So what I have is that in BC, 75% versus 65%. Again, this is an indication, I think, oftentimes, you and I have talked about and we've talked about on this this podcast about that early intervention and prevention piece. Like, what what does that tell what does that stat lead you to, I don't want to say assume, but lead you to understand about the people who are struggling and the point in time in which they have to get help.
Mike Gawliuk:Well, I I mean, we've talked about this before and certainly we know that, a significant percentage of, mental health mental illnesses show up in young people under the age of 25. So you can certainly read some of that into it. Mhmm. I would think that, certainly what it shows again is that the need for a system that invests in early intervention, prevention, treatment, is absolutely necessary in order to make those numbers move. And, again, what the overall report is saying is that there needs to be more investment in this and that's at the federal government level.
Mike Gawliuk:Right. Right? And what CMHA is is calling for ultimately is to set that into law. So ultimately then that 12% of funding that goes to the province must be spent specifically on mental health and substance use resources and programs.
Jessica Samuels:So writing the 12% spend into law or just increased resources and spending?
Mike Gawliuk:No, writing that in
Jessica Samuels:Writing it.
Mike Gawliuk:So that provinces are specifically held to that number and to use it, specifically towards mental health and substance use. Right. Yeah.
Jessica Samuels:One of the other interesting factors about this is the availability and access to mental health. Certainly, we talk about an overwhelmed system when we're in a well populated, somewhat urban area known as the central Okanagan. When we look at the northern communities and specifically indigenous communities, when you said 38%, I think off the top of peoples, Indigenous peoples are reporting that their mental health is part of fair. Is this part and parcel to the location? Is this Indigenous folks in northern communities?
Jessica Samuels:Is this indigenous folks that are spread across the country and in all communities?
Mike Gawliuk:Well, I I I think certainly what the what the report speaks to is, certainly in the north and in in rural communities, you know, the access to services is just simply not there like it would be in larger urban centers. So, I mean, that's that's one reality is is, you know, the ability to get help, isn't isn't available, which obviously is going to create some challenges. There's no doubt about it. When it comes to, indigenous people, there's a whole lot more that's wrapped up in that. Right?
Mike Gawliuk:And it goes far beyond whether there's access to treatment, but it's access to culturally safe and culturally competent care. And that's that needs to be worked on as well.
Jessica Samuels:Right. Is this something that is called out within? So, okay, so let's move this a little bit forward is that in the report there are some recommendations. Let's go over some of the recommendations in kind of what they like to see. So you said obviously that 12% spend written into law and provinces held accountable.
Jessica Samuels:What are some of the other things that recommendations that were made?
Mike Gawliuk:So those were 2. One gets back to the social development or social determinants of health. It comes back to poverty and it comes back to the fact that people that are living in poverty are more likely to struggle with mental illness. And so, one of the one of the calls to government is to eliminate poverty, which is a big ask Yeah. Ultimately.
Mike Gawliuk:And that, the other ask is to collect more and better data to improve the mental health health care system and the mental health of Canadians.
Jessica Samuels:Sound like very robust, recommendations and broad recommendations. I can only imagine that the devil will be in the details for this, and I'm sure this will kind of, eke and emerge its way out as this gets delved into, hopefully delved into, as as we go further. So, one thing do we know I guess, are we sitting here waiting for a response from the government? Or, I mean, it's the interesting thing with these reports. So you have the National Mental Health Organization saying, this is not good enough.
Jessica Samuels:We need to do better, And they make recommendations. And then it's like, okay, now what?
Mike Gawliuk:Mhmm.
Jessica Samuels:So now we wait. We what do we do?
Mike Gawliuk:Well, I think now, we continue to spread the word. Right? We we need, more people to understand this information, understand this data, you know, to to advocate to government, for these changes and that resources be added to the mix. I think that's one one part that, anybody, ultimately can do. Right?
Mike Gawliuk:This is about advocacy. This is about making sure that that that that voice is loud and it's understood that something needs to happen. Mhmm. Certainly, what we've seen, provincially is when CMHA has taken on advocacy initiatives and it's come into elections that many of those have been taken up in and by government. And I think the report you know, points to a few of the bright spots.
Mike Gawliuk:And some of those bright spots are the direct result of advocacy, certainly at a provincial level. You know, a few examples listed in the report are sort of the crisis carry form that's taken place. And in British Columbia, CMHA launched and is is in the process of growing the PACT program, which is a crisis response team made up of civilian responders. So a mental health professional teamed with a peer supporter, and that came out of the concerns that there needed to be a different response when it came to crisis that didn't necessarily need to involve, the legal authorities. It launched in North and West Van and is now, spread to a number of other communities in the province.
Mike Gawliuk:Yeah. That's, that's one of the highlights that this report brings forward. There's other, there's other examples in different provinces across Canada as well but BC and CMHA in particular, BC division led the way in bringing that forward.
Jessica Samuels:Right. So when you say, love, like law enforcement officials, we're talking about the difference be be between having police respond to incidences that are clearly related to or due to a mental health crisis and really kind of changing how that's being done. So, you know, it's it's it's a highlight. It's a it's a spotlight that was outlined in this report. It must be showing that this is doing well in in North Van and Vancouver.
Mike Gawliuk:Yeah. So it it originated in North and West Vancouver and it spread to a number of other communities. It's showing a significant difference. Right? The dynamic that changes when it's a trained mental health professional, and a and a and a peer support worker who understands what's going on, are more likely to have an effective response, within that.
Mike Gawliuk:So it's definitely something that, got off the ground and because of the outcomes with that program has has begun to grown throughout the province. Mhmm.
Jessica Samuels:Is this something then that we would hope? Would you like to do this here in Kelowna? And specifically would CMHA Kelowna like to do this?
Mike Gawliuk:So, I mean, certainly I've as have a number of other organizations been part of the Kelowna Public Safety Plan. There's a specific action item towards a civilian crisis response team and there have been ongoing conversations around how, we're going to be able to bring PACT to Kelowna. Would CMHA, be interested in playing a role in that? 100% in partnership, with the municipality along with our other service delivery partners. We we have a keen interest in that and I would suggest based on what we know in our community, a significant need in this community for that service.
Mike Gawliuk:Mhmm.
Jessica Samuels:Right. One of the other spotlights that came through this this pockets of innovation is what they're calling it in the report is, another one of those is the housing investment. So CMHA Colon is a housing provider, significant housing provider, both supportive and affordable housing, different types of housing in this community. And up to this point, here's an example of of of our province actually doing a lot in this area. And please correct me if I'm wrong.
Jessica Samuels:But then recently, the budgets have shown that it's not necessarily going to there's not going to be any extra spend in this area. Now now fact check me on that, but we've got that and then we've got the call from CMHA National to say we have to end poverty, we have to end homelessness when we've got provinces already doing it. Know, this feels like it's gonna be a long way off to achieve.
Mike Gawliuk:Well, I think I I mean, certainly provincially, there's been significant investments into housing, which includes affordable housing. It it includes support of, housing. It's included, investment into the rental protection fund, which is a fund that allows nonprofits to acquire older properties that are at risk of, renoviction and redevelopment and to be able to keep them affordable and then potentially redevelop them themselves. So there's there's been a lot of investment in to housing. There's certainly been a lot of legislative changes as well around housing, to ensure that more of it can get built.
Mike Gawliuk:Certainly knowing that, that's a lot of can get built. Certainly knowing that that was a key part of the most recent election, the commitment to continue to move forward in building affordable housing and I just returned from the BC Nonprofit Housing Association, annual conference. Certainly, it's it's about putting the the the foot on the gas, not on the brakes. And not only recognizing the need, but the many different ways that housing can get built and help to address some of those affordability issues.
Jessica Samuels:To put you under the spot once again. So if we have a province that has spent significant dollars and paid attention and advocacy towards, addressing the homelessness and affordable housing issue in our province, and yet we are still so far off the mark, What's the case to continue along this course, understanding that we need more, but are we getting there? Are we making a difference? Are we making a dent in what we have done so far?
Mike Gawliuk:Yeah. Well, I mean, the reality of the situation is this this this didn't just happen one night. Mhmm. Right? Like, one day all of a sudden these these housing issues showed up.
Mike Gawliuk:Right? And it and it does go back to the federal government and getting out of the business of affordable housing. So the reality is that across the country part of it is that we're playing catch up ultimately for for all those years where there wasn't investment. Right? Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk:And so to suggest that, you know, what's been done over the course of the last few years is going to be, sufficient, and adequate to help get us to the place where we need to be, certainly isn't the case. There needs to be more as more projects come online and you start to see these elements. Certainly, we'll see a difference. The reality is that, non market housing, which is ultimately going to be subsidized through government is absolutely essential. The private market can't build to the same level of non market that non profits can.
Mike Gawliuk:And so the reality is there's going to be a need for those funds to allow for affordable housing for people that are in deep need to be able to have a roof over their head.
Jessica Samuels:I go back to the comment you made earlier about the snowball effect. There's also the, I often think of it as as the things we are doing today are addressing the issues of the day today. As things continue to be more unaffordable, that issue is going to snowball in terms of and it's going to fall out in the housing affordability. We've talked about this many times. So the state of the number of folks who can afford their homes today would clearly it's different than it was a couple of years ago and might be different than a couple of years from now.
Jessica Samuels:And then you have other folks who need, you have seniors with fixed income. We have an agent population here. So that's always interesting to me as well. I was playing a little devil's advocate there that folks are talking about a situation. It's not a static issue.
Jessica Samuels:This issue is changing due to factors that have nothing to do with housing. Right? But housing is one of the effects it all.
Mike Gawliuk:For sure. I mean, at the same conference the BC seniors advocate spoke and really spoke to the reality of, you know, some of the some of the income levels for seniors in this province and it's scary. Like, the ability for some seniors to be able to afford a roof over their head. We're I mean, what it feels for like the first time, at least in my experience, you know, we're actually seeing seniors falling into homelessness because they can't afford to have the roof over their head. That's that's concerning.
Mike Gawliuk:Right? And it's a function of all of these other factors that intersect and, and pile up on one another. And it's why one simple solution to all of these issues does not exist. Ultimately, we're dealing with complex challenges, and we need to look at investment that is not just about this is the answer. Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk:Realistically, this is the answer. This is the answer. Some of that is the answer. And then some of the answers, we don't yet know. Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk:But I can tell you anytime when there's just the silver bullet, this is the thing that's going to fix it all. Mhmm. We usually end up and find ourselves a little bit disappointed. Mhmm. So, that investment and this includes mental health, it's it's an investment in all of those areas.
Mike Gawliuk:Like I said, prevention, early intervention, treatment, certainly community mental health services like those that are delivered by CMHA, absolutely essential in order to continue to move things forward. Because if we don't, I'm concerned about what this report could look like 2, 4, 6, 8 years from now. It's, it's essential.
Jessica Samuels:Yeah. I was going to ask you as we wrap up here. So so we've talked about kind of the facts, the stat facts, the white paper facts of what this shows As a human, as the, you know, the head of CMHA Kelowna, someone who's been in this sector for so long, how do you feel when you read this? You see that headline like mental health is substantially worse than It's not surprising like I mean you can just take a look around,
Mike Gawliuk:you can you can have a chat with your friends like people people ultimately are struggling. That being said again these pockets of innovation or pockets of hope allow us to have some optimism that actually there are things that can be done, that there are different things that can be put in place that do have an impact. Certainly for me, if I felt like there was no way forward, well we certainly wouldn't have this podcast ultimately. Yeah. And and and and certainly, I wouldn't be here.
Mike Gawliuk:Mhmm. This is this is why we do the work that we do. This is why CMHA is not only a service delivery organization, but certainly an advocacy organization as well because, we want to and we need to influence change in order for people to get the help that they need.
Jessica Samuels:Well, I'm I'm grateful for your hope and the innovation that goes on at CMHA clone and all the CMHAs and the organizations in our city. There's a lot of organizations that are just in there doing this gritty, gritty work. And when you when you see reports like this and and I hope that that folks would understand, you see reports like that, you, you wouldn't kind of fall prey to, to my devil's advocate moment that I had a few moments ago and recognize this is, there's no easy button as a good friend of ours like, likes to say, especially when it comes to
Mike Gawliuk:this. Absolutely.
Jessica Samuels:Thank you for that. Thank you to our sponsors, Bean Credit Union, for sponsoring this podcast so that we can have these discussions and
Mike Gawliuk:show
Jessica Samuels:people that there really is a way forward. We covered a ton of data. There's a ton of data we didn't cover, and we're gonna put the full, state of mental health, in Canada report on the CMHA kalona.org website. Thank you so much, Mike.
Mike Gawliuk:Thank you.
Jessica Samuels:Beam Credit Union is proud to be a part of communities all across BC with over 50 branches and insurance offices dedicated to supporting your financial journey. Beam understands financial wellness means something different to everyone, and they're here to help you achieve your unique goals. Whether you're saving for the future, planning your next big step or just looking for peace of mind, Beam Credit Union is by your side. GFCU Savings, Gulf and Fraser, Interior Savings and North Peace Savings are trade names of Beam Credit Union.
