Episode 7: Loneliness
Hello. I'm Jessica Samuels, and welcome to episode 7 of A Way Forward podcast presented by Bean Credit Union. Today's discussion is taking place on the traditional, ancestral, and unceded lands of the Okanagan Sillux people. This episode, CMHA Kelowna CEO, Mike Golick, joins me, and we talk about loneliness and how, if it goes unaddressed, it can lead to some serious health issues. Thanks for being here, Mike.
Jessica Samuels:I think it's important for us right off the top top to discuss what is loneliness because it's actually not just or it's more than just simply being alone.
Mike Gawliuk:Yes. So loneliness, one of the definitions is an emotional experience that means our current close relationships don't meet our our needs. And so ultimately, it isn't just about being alone. It can mean, again, you've got you're in a you're in a circle, people, and you don't feel like you fit in. That can bring on a sense of loneliness.
Mike Gawliuk:You've got a circle of connections where you're not necessarily getting the support and the connection that you want, and that can ultimately, you know, result in in feelings of loneliness. Mhmm. Through the loss, you know, of a loved one or or a friend, certainly that can bring on loneliness. And then absolutely, there are cases where, a person is alone and and wants to be with other people, where there's that, emotional experience of loneliness. So I think to to to equate loneliness with being alone, doesn't do the term, the justice that that it needs for people to truly appreciate and understand it.
Jessica Samuels:That's right. And and also to and we'll delve into some of the significant impacts that it has in your life and and how to address them with kind of those different scenarios you were talking about. I did also just read a really interesting article. I think I sent it over to you. It was quite surprising to me.
Jessica Samuels:I think it was Harvard Business Review, talking about loneliness in the workplace, which I was like, okay, this is interesting. And also thank you, Harvard Business Review, for your timely article. But it was interesting to me because I always associated being aware of significant loneliness for folks who are isolated, who had lost a loved one or seniors as well, like folks who had something significant in their life happen or didn't have access to larger support groups. But it seems to me like we're hearing it more. Is loneliness on the rise or is it one of those things that we're talking about it more so we're aware of it more?
Mike Gawliuk:Well, I I think we're aware of it more, but certainly, it's it's been referenced as as an epidemic. So, yeah, that's, like, that's absolutely a concern. And, and the the World Health Association in 2023 called it a pressing global threat. That's that's how major this is. And I think, as we'll get into it and we speak to it, it's certainly the impact that loneliness can have on us physically and, the damaging effect that it can ultimately have.
Mike Gawliuk:And, one one article that I was looking at is was doing reach for research for this compared loneliness to the equivalent equivalent of smoking 15 cigarettes a day.
Jessica Samuels:What? Wow. Yeah. Really?
Mike Gawliuk:Yeah. This really. And the impact on, the loneliness impact on someone's physical health, from increases in blood pressure to heart problems, to certainly mental health issues like depression and anxiety and ultimately death. Like, it is serious and it's a concern.
Jessica Samuels:So physiological symptoms in the moment, in the person at the time, and then also what I'm hearing is shortened lifespan?
Mike Gawliuk:Yes.
Jessica Samuels:Oh, gosh. Wow. Okay. Well, good thing we're talking about it. I mean, and and sorry, like, I and obviously, it's a serious topic.
Jessica Samuels:But when you put it in those terms, you know, we always relate it to that smoke cigarettes a day kind of terms. I think it really talks about the seriousness, of the condition. It's not just somebody's it's not just the feelings, right? Like, obviously, feeling lonely is how we describe it. But there's more going on in the body if you're going to have this very physical reaction.
Jessica Samuels:So we're and we talked about seniors, are there other groups that tend to experience loneliness? We're all experiencing or we can all experience it, but are there kind of groups that are impacted more?
Mike Gawliuk:Well, in looking at some of the information in in, preparation for this, one one group that was identified is indigenous seniors, and, part of that has to do with racism, potentially marginalization due to language, poverty, and of course, negative, historical experience, and and the reality that the oppression of indigenous peoples, and their cultures, place people at higher risk for loneliness.
Jessica Samuels:Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk:We look at, LGBTQ people, who are at higher risk for loneliness when compared to their heterosexual peers. Certainly, sexual minorities are more likely to be living alone, maybe not have children, have less contact with their family
Jessica Samuels:and,
Mike Gawliuk:maybe at greater risk of social isolation.
Jessica Samuels:Right. I go back to that. You're talking about the different types of loneliness and when you said, well, you're you might be around people or have the ability to be around people, but you don't quite fit in. You don't. You're not getting that sense of connection from the people who are around you.
Jessica Samuels:And that's what popped up to me when you identified those last two groups. Why does it feel like this is such a paradox? We are in a time where we are supposed to be so connected. You know, I was just I was you were away for a week, I was just away in a different country, in the south, and you're still texting in real time, you're answering emails in real time when you can. I'm FaceTiming with my my husband to show him where I was staying and the beautiful sunset.
Jessica Samuels:We're supposed to be so connected, yet you said that this is being described as an epidemic.
Mike Gawliuk:Yeah. Well, and I mean, just prior to this, you said I just got 28 texts.
Jessica Samuels:Yeah. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I did.
Jessica Samuels:I kind of was alarmed.
Mike Gawliuk:As an example, you you know, the reality is I think technology can give us the perception of connectedness. Mhmm. Right? Versus being together. Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk:Right? I think there's there's also the reality from from a loneliness perspective of social media and and, and we had talked about this, in a previous episode around the notion of comparison. Right? And so, you know, when you're looking at social media and you're seeing whoever it is living that perfect life and, you compare yourself to that. And, ultimately, when you're making the comparison, you're always comparing what you see to be, you know, the worst parts of you to the best parts, of of them.
Jessica Samuels:Right. So that can kind of force you to isolate yourself even more. Like, you don't live up. I I can't compete. I'm not good enough.
Jessica Samuels:I don't connect with that particular group. It it kind of becomes can become self perpetuating.
Mike Gawliuk:Yeah. Well and and and how many friends can you have ultimately? I think I think one of the things I was reading about, like, put it in Facebook terms for for every 150 Facebook friends, that average is 4 actual real friends that might be there for you when you're, when you're in need. Right? So, yeah, certainly, we've got our we've got technology.
Mike Gawliuk:We've got it, right in front of us, and it gives the sense of connection. But, you know, the reality is real connection is is way more than that. And so technology can contribute actually to a sense of loneliness.
Jessica Samuels:Right. Not that I wanna blame everything on, you know, that little thing that happened in 2020 and 2021 and 2022. But, what do we still understand the effects of COVID nineteen, and the pandemic have had on us and how that contributed to the sense of loneliness?
Mike Gawliuk:I think I I mean, there there is some there's ongoing research that's taking place as it pertains to, the pandemic and loneliness. And, certainly, during the pandemic, people's experience of loneliness. I mean, again, when you're looking at, you know, a a public health emergency and the response to that is social isolation, The reality is you're gonna you're gonna have some experience of, of loneliness. But, in terms of the broader societal impact of the pandemic subsequent Mhmm. That research is still taking place.
Mike Gawliuk:Mhmm. We don't ultimately have all the answers at this point in time. So at at a time in a place back to those that that time, and I certainly remember those times, Definitely, that was the case, especially, again, in cases where people were maybe living on their own and and your connection point was through the technology of the rest of it. We don't have a good sense, I would say, at this point in time as to the, the longer term impacts of the pandemic as it applies to loneliness, and and other factors.
Jessica Samuels:Right. Exactly. Okay. And that it makes sense on kind of ongoing. And I think we, you know, we recently talked about the, report on the state of mental health in Canada, and it's getting worse as we get further out from the pandemic.
Jessica Samuels:So I, I kind of understand that point you're making about this is going to be kind of emerging and to be looked at, and the new areas of loneliness. So this Harvard Business Review article, the, I was scrolling on LinkedIn and, because, you know, to feel connected to the world. No, just kidding. And I read, at QuickGlutz the title, and it says, we're still lonely at work. And it caught me and I was like, ah, this is really interesting.
Jessica Samuels:And I had all kinds of thoughts that were going through my head. So, what's really interesting to me in this is that is that, you know, I I do have a full time job, I am a business owner, we actually sell office furniture. So we're very embedded in the understanding of the return to office RTO and the WFH work from home, because obviously that that could financially impact what I do in my day job as a business owner. So when I read this title, that's what I went to I thought, oh, okay, this is going to be another article about work from home and return to work and hybrid models and plus plus plus but it really wasn't that at all. And in fact, it actually points out that, being in the office was not the cure by itself to loneliness at work.
Jessica Samuels:And that was kind of like, wait, what? And it kind of goes back to what you were saying before about being around people. So being at work, it doesn't necessarily solve the problem at loneliness at work. So why are we lonely at
Mike Gawliuk:work? Well, first of all, thanks for sharing the article. Yeah. Yeah. Because as a mental health organization, certainly one of the things that, we we focus significant energy on is is the the mental health of, of our workforce.
Mike Gawliuk:And, and and there's some reminders in there. Right? I think, again, it breaks it down to, to some of the myths. And, one of the myths is that, like, loneliness is a is a a personal problem, not an organizational problem.
Jessica Samuels:Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk:And to your point that by returning to the office and doing in person work, that's going to be the thing that's going to make all the difference in the world when when in fact, that's not the case. Certainly, what the article talks about, first of all, is is making it a priority. They actually suggest measuring loneliness in the workplace to get a sense of what that looks like and and and and what's happening there. And this term is going to come up again and again and again as we have our conversations, but they talk about building a culture of connection. Right?
Mike Gawliuk:And so, you know, building socialization into the rhythm of work and being able to spend time together and and have social activities and maximize, work opportunities to enhance that sense of connection Mhmm. As some of the strategies that need to be considered, to help address loneliness in the workplace.
Jessica Samuels:Mhmm. And I can imagine that we would have to go back to the the reasons why why the individual is is feeling lonely in the workplace. I mean, and and to to kind of pile on to something that you see, like a pizza party is not going to solve a problem for an individual who's feeling lonely at work because they don't fit in with their peers. And I'm overly simplifying, but I would just like folks to have that takeaway, to say that it's it's not a staff. A staff party alone is not gonna solve this.
Mike Gawliuk:Yeah. I would suggest, ultimately, and again, from what I've read and in in my experience is, like, you've got to come to a true understanding of what's taking place. Mhmm. Like, there's all the things you can do to, you know, tick the boxes. So, yeah, a pizza party is is what it is.
Jessica Samuels:Yeah.
Mike Gawliuk:I think the the opportunity for people to get together and connect would be what's underneath that, and that's ultimately the case. Right?
Jessica Samuels:Right.
Mike Gawliuk:But it goes beyond tick boxes and the things that we think that we should do to having really a good understanding of our organizations, having a good understanding of the people within our organizations. And then what are the things that ultimately organizations can do to support, you know, ultimately organizations can do to support, you know, building that culture of connection, providing those opportunities for for those things to happen. You mentioned that one of the ways to address this in the workplace was measuring it.
Jessica Samuels:You know, are are you talking about, like, a survey or a questionnaire? Like, I know that, CMHA Kelowna does, the Guarding Minds, I believe, or has in the past. Is it are you talking about something like that that measures the psychological well-being of of of staff in the workplace?
Mike Gawliuk:Yeah. Yeah. I definitely, that's what that's ultimately what I'm talking about. And and the the use of a anonymized survey to get a sense of what that looks like then allows organizations ultimately and what we would look to do to then, see what we're doing well, seeing what ultimately people need, and then moving forward with trying to implement some of those things. Right?
Jessica Samuels:Right. Yeah. So solutions for loneliness in the workplace. Let's let's keep going forward with solutions here and let's have a little discussion about individuals who are experiencing loneliness due to loss of a loved one or a significant figure in their lives. You know, grief, grief is a complex issue.
Jessica Samuels:And so how, what are some suggested ways that perhaps folks can manage their loneliness due to that?
Mike Gawliuk:Yeah. Certainly grief and loss that we've touched on. I I mean, I think that's a very, very human experience. Right? Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk:One of the things that they say, first thing is that, don't should all over yourself. Mhmm. The reality is grief is going to look different for, every person. And so not to put expectations, on your grief and think about how you should and should not feel. You can everybody's grief is unique, ultimately, and how each person approaches grief will differ.
Mike Gawliuk:Mhmm. Certainly, some of the other pieces is letting others that offer to help and support, allowing people into your world and and allowing that to happen. Mhmm. Finding and giving your yourself things to do, whatever that might look like. And that goes hand in hand in hand with, avoiding isolation.
Mike Gawliuk:So maybe tending maybe the last thing you're gonna wanna do is attend a social event or anything like that. That tends to build on itself. Right? It be becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. So some of the suggestions are, like, when there's an opportunity for a social connection, If it's a social event, that piece, go, but maybe you drive drive yourself to the event and and, you know, you're there for a bit and then leave.
Mike Gawliuk:But certainly, socializing, trying to build connections, engaging is are some of the ways that that people can deal with grief. And I mean, ultimately, depending on, the level of grief and, how people are managing, certainly, there would recommend and encourage, you know, counseling as well to help support people through that.
Jessica Samuels:Right. Right. Because if if if your loneliness feeling lonely due to grief, part of it would be managing the grief component of it. And hopefully the loneliness would would come alongside that as well. And and, you know, it's hard to offer suggestions to folks for, you know, in different perspectives of of why they perhaps might be feeling lonely.
Jessica Samuels:I mean, I don't know. I've never had an well, I shouldn't say that. I was gonna say I've never had an experience that I that I didn't feel like I I fit in, that I wasn't able to kind of readily manage within a short amount of time. But, you know, when we talk about people who are feeling lonely because they don't fit in or they don't have that supporting connections, ultimately, yes, it sounds like building the connections and the support is the way to go. But I would imagine that part of the reason why that is absent in their life is that they do not know how to go about doing it.
Mike Gawliuk:Sure. I mean, ultimately, that's that's that's highly likely that they don't know how to go about doing it. Mhmm. I one of the things that was talked about in terms of, addressing that is a, understanding the reasons why you feel lonely. When we talk about social connection, one of the one of the terms that was used was to to be strategic.
Mike Gawliuk:So everybody's got their own interests. Right? So whether or not, you know, you're into sports or another activity, like using that interest to then potentially, build connections. So maybe you join a maybe you join a sports league, something like that. Things that align with ultimately what you enjoy and what you like.
Mike Gawliuk:It can be little steps. Right? So again, in where there's a close connection that you have, even if you have a decent connections with your with your family, trying to reach out, on a more regular basis. And that might mean picking up the phone and having a phone call versus, again, sending a text message or getting lost in the world of the the make believe connection sometimes that technology can be. And sometimes, and and certainly what's encouraged as well is to, get involved in your community, the potential of volunteering.
Mike Gawliuk:Right? So for example, and it sounds simple, but, you know, if you're an animal lover, there's maybe opportunities to go and volunteer at a place like the SPCA, something along those lines. Getting to know your neighbors can be one way, to just sort of to start to crack that door open a little bit.
Jessica Samuels:Like so much of what we talk about here on Mike, this is a complex issue, And there's no easy thing that is going to solve it. But it's something that we have to pay attention to, or else we will have some very serious health ramifications and mental health ramifications. So ultimately, when it comes to loneliness, what is your suggestion? How how do we as individuals address it and how we can how can we support others in our life who we may think, might be experiencing this?
Mike Gawliuk:I mean, I think the big message, is that human beings are hardwired for connection.
Jessica Samuels:Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk:They're hardwired for, social activity. And, you know, in thinking about that, it it comes back to this thing, about the notion of community and connection and how important that is in terms of addressing loneliness, how important that is overall in addressing mental health. And, earlier this week, I was at a at a session, at a conference I attended, and there was a gentleman there by the name of, Guy Felicella. And he's fairly well known in the in the province and in Canada as someone who has struggled with substance use, spent 20 years on the downtown east side, is open to telling a story around the number of overdoses, involvement with the criminal justice system, what it was like to be, unhoused. And for him, what made the difference and the term that he used is that ultimately when it comes to, people, human connection can change direction And ultimately, that's part of the way forward.
Jessica Samuels:Wow. Powerful statement to think we will leave it there. We do have a number of resources I know that that you pulled from and I pulled from in order to have this discussion. We're gonna list them on the website on the Away Forward podcast page presented by Beam Credit Union, because what's going to be right for people, the human connection, but in what shape or form that comes in, it's going to be different for each individual. So we'll make sure that we get those on the page and hopefully, some folks can really find a way forward in that regard.
Jessica Samuels:Mike, thank you so much for joining me.
Mike Gawliuk:Thank you.
Jessica Samuels:Beam Credit Union is proud to be a part of communities all across B. C. With over 50 branches and insurance offices dedicated to supporting your financial journey. Beam understands financial wellness means something different to everyone, and they're here to help you achieve your unique goals. Whether you're saving for the future, planning your next big step or just looking for peace of mind, Beam Credit Union is by your side.
Jessica Samuels:GFCU Savings, Gulf and Fraser, Interior Savings and North Peace Savings are trade names of Beam Credit Union.
