Episode 8: Mental Health in Heavy Times
Hello. I'm Jessica Samuels, and welcome to A Way Forward presented by Beam Credit Union. I'd like to acknowledge this podcast takes place on the ancestral, traditional, and unceded lands of the Okanagan Sillux people. Our topic today is mental health in a heavy world, and my co host CMHA Kelowna CEO Mike Golic and I will talk about how you can manage your mental health when everything around us just feels turbulent. So, Mike, I'm gonna start off with the question that we all tend to ask ourselves as we greet each other.
Jessica Samuels:How are you?
Mike Gawliuk:That's, that's a great question. Uh-oh. Yeah. Exactly. Oh, here we go.
Mike Gawliuk:I would say, I'm a little bit tired. Things in the world are a little bit uncertain. It feels like, you know, and we've talked about this before. We made our way through a pandemic, and we sort of started to come out the other end sort of kind of. And, we're now back in a place where, there's a lot of uncertainty in the world, which is creating a lot of stress for people.
Mike Gawliuk:Mhmm. And, I would say over the the past few months, certainly have, felt that stress, that uncertainty, and and that lack of control in regards to, you know, your your direct influence over some of the challenges that we're current currently experiencing. So, I think as as time goes on, and we'll talk more about this. I've turned the TV off. I'm not watching the news very much at all these days because of the negative impact that it has, and that is making a difference.
Mike Gawliuk:There's no doubt about that. Mhmm. On the same end, how are you doing?
Jessica Samuels:Ditto. You know, it's really interesting. So when we, you know, we approach this podcast and we've we kind of have the the mental health topics that we know we're going to cover. There's those things that impact our mental health. We've covered them.
Jessica Samuels:We will cover more. And then there's these things that kind of rise to the top as you scroll, as you watch change channels, you talk to your friends, you talk to family members. And I just was noticing this theme of like, what the heck people are going on? And then and then actually it was my brother who, asked me, he's like, so do you ever talk about mental health in, like, the news? And I said, no, maybe, should I?
Jessica Samuels:And then I saw a post on social media from Harvard Business Review that actually was a cute little graphic and said, how to manage your mental health with the news. And I said, okay. And I really looked at how I was feeling and I'm the same. I'm feeling a little bit better than I have been, but I just feel like I have been stuck in this angst and uncertainty driven angst.
Mike Gawliuk:Yep.
Jessica Samuels:And and, really, that's what we wanna talk about today. So, you know, we talked about turbulent times, and and and how they manifest for everybody. You mentioned something like, you know, the pandemic, and I feel like we're we're in a time right now where there's things that are happening across the world that have a chance to negatively impact or impact our personal lives. And and as I was getting ready and researching this episode, I said, you know, that's really it's those those bits and pieces that have the opportunity to affect you personally that really get to us. So that's what we're gonna that's we're gonna dig into today.
Jessica Samuels:So hope you're ready for that. Yep. You are. So when we're talking about those things, so we're talking about political turbulence. We're talking about natural disasters.
Jessica Samuels:And and and when as we go into this, I want to use the term news as a general term. I'm not here to blame it on social media or news outlets. What I'm talking about is the taking in of information, the essence of the definition of news. And it's this 24 news cycle, social media, television, and I have to tell you even conversation with friends that has me up here.
Mike Gawliuk:Mhmm. Well, it it can feel like it's never ending.
Jessica Samuels:Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk:Right? And and ultimately that you don't you don't really get any reprieve from it. I think as human beings, like, we're we're hardwired to get information, and to try and understand what's taking place and to make sense of things and and to try to get, some level of certainty. That's a double edged sword, because because on the one hand, more information may, in fact, make you feel like you've got a sense of what's going on or have it under control. From a mental health perspective and the potential negative side of things is, the stress that it causes, and and how, it can make someone's experience of mental health, worse instead of better.
Jessica Samuels:Mhmm. Mhmm. And and when we talk about those personal impacts as well, it's all of that's heightened. So you referenced, some emotional things that our body can go through. It's mental health, effects on mental health.
Jessica Samuels:We're talk a little bit more about what the body goes through because this is a thing, as they say. This is this is a real thing.
Mike Gawliuk:It's a real thing. Yeah. I mean, certainly, how news can impact us is it can result in, fight or flight. And, you know, it's it's not hundreds of years ago whereby, you know, we're getting chased by Yeah. By bears or lions, and that needs to kick in in order for us to survive.
Mike Gawliuk:However, we haven't evolved that much. And news and news in particular that impacts us directly can have the same fight or flight impact on us. And what happens is, our sympathetic nervous system goes into overload. It releases adrenaline. It it releases other stress hormones, including cortisol, which, ultimately, you're having a physiological reaction, to to that information.
Mike Gawliuk:And and the challenge with that, in, you know, in the long term is, if that's not managed, that level of stress and consistently being in fight or flight can result in ongoing and chronic, physical health concerns as well.
Jessica Samuels:It's interesting to me that that fight or flight, like you mentioned, is coming up from, you know, that instinct, that basic instinct for us, which came from, you know, live or die, eat or don't eat, you know, be eaten by, you know, any kind of predator. And and we're talking about now a news or information source that doesn't have that actualized immediate threat, but it's still kind of it, not kind of, it's still eliciting that response in us. And we're in this really vicious cycle because we're seeking out this information so that we can feel more certain about the world. But it's the information that's causing us to get this high response.
Mike Gawliuk:Well, and there's another physical, element to this too. Right? And, as we seek out information, we can ultimately get a surge of dopamine, which means that we go back and we seek out that information again and seek out that information again. And, ultimately, that can become like a negative reinforcing loop, and it's something, that we do, certainly unintentionally. But in our in our search for certainty, in our in our search for understanding, there are things that that we do that, do the exact opposite and couldn't be harmful for us.
Jessica Samuels:Is this like where doomscrolling came in? Like, somehow, that hit of dopamine that you mentioned is where you just can't turn away from any of the headline or, you know, that you're you're driving down the road and you you see the the police lights and and, you know, the ambulance and the fire truck, and you know it's not gonna be good, but it you you it's all you can do to not slow down and look or or or then go to the headlines and see what happens. Like, this it's it's an interesting phenomena that I think has talked has been talked more about post pandemic.
Mike Gawliuk:I think I think so for sure. I mean, I think in part with the pandemic, of course, how we communicated with each other, changed. Right? The use of, you know, our devices and texting and those kinds of things, like, you know, you get a text, there's a ding, there's a hit of dopamine right there. Right?
Jessica Samuels:Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk:And it reinforces, by sending that response and getting another one, that this continues to build. And and and it's it's a it's a world that we live in, and it's a reality that we face right now for sure.
Jessica Samuels:Mhmm. Okay. So, you know, I'm feeling it. The folks in my network are feeling it. You're feeling it.
Jessica Samuels:I'm I I I feel like we're not alone in this. And I think recognizing that I think what I wanted to do here today is acknowledge to folks that this is a very real feeling. It's okay that we're all having. And actually it's not just a feeling. We're actually having a physiological response and to recognize that.
Jessica Samuels:And so, of course, when we get to this point, we want to say, how best can we manage this? Because this doesn't feel good. I mean, before we get to that part, I wouldn't mind going back to what you had talked about. Like, it can't be good for our bodies overall to be operating in this mode for any length of time. Like, you know, I'm sure I feel like and I don't want to catastrophize anything, but I'm really feeling like in the world, we've just been bracing for uncertainty since, you know, 2020, March thirteenth '20 '20.
Jessica Samuels:And I wonder if this is also like an echo response that we're still kind of coming off this five four or five years later.
Mike Gawliuk:Well, it's certainly it's certainly a learned response. There's no doubt about that. I think it's, it's a physiological response to a perceived threat. There's, there's no doubt about that whatsoever. Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk:There's lots of similarities back to to 2,000. So we've certainly, learned how to respond and react to things. And and I think, ultimately, it's absolutely normal. It's a normal human physiological response. How we manage that response Yeah.
Mike Gawliuk:Is, I mean, key in terms of chronic stress not turning into disease, uncertainty and stress not becoming, you know, a diagnosed mental illness. And and there are things that we can do to try to manage ourselves in the face of that.
Jessica Samuels:Right. Okay. So let's let's focus on that now because, you know, in that in that vein of thought where if we feel like we've kind of been in and out of this for a a few years now, we might almost run the risk of feeling like this is how things should be or are are okay to be right now.
Mike Gawliuk:Mhmm.
Jessica Samuels:And as we've indicated, it can do some real damage, mentally and and and and physically. So what's the first step in managing this? I can imagine to say to to recognize that you're having these responses. You're scrolling. You're reading a headline.
Jessica Samuels:You're hearing a friend, and you notice this fight or flight, you know, angst rise up. Like, walk us through kind of what what we have to do to manage this.
Mike Gawliuk:Well, I I think before you can take action, you have to be aware that something is taking place. So, part of it is noticing what's going on for you. Like, how are you feeling. Right? Like, are you feeling stressed?
Mike Gawliuk:How does that how does that feel ultimately in your body? Are there friends that are making comments, around how you're showing up different?
Jessica Samuels:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk:Are you are you consistently, either scrolling Mhmm. Through the headlines or is the TV on in the background and the news is going, twenty four seven? Right? I think it's it's a matter of paying attention and and being aware. Right.
Mike Gawliuk:And and as we identify some of those signs and and identify what's taking place, then ultimately, there's some actions that we can we can take on.
Jessica Samuels:Right. And you mentioned a few of them. We can talk about that off the top and even what you're doing. One of them is, you said recognizes recognizing that you probably shouldn't be feeling this way. It's not good to feel this way.
Jessica Samuels:So then what's the next step? And you mentioned yourself limiting the taking in that information.
Mike Gawliuk:Yeah. Over the last little while, and I can't say really what's, what's driven it, but I just think I just got tired of of the same thing over and over and and the doom and the rest of it and and needed just to take a break. Mhmm. Like, it, continuing to see it wasn't good. Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk:My stress level certainly had gone up, and I would notice that physically. I have a friend who I would I totally give him credit because he, he struggles with a diagnosed mental illness, and he has struggled for a number of years And, through the course of the fall, as we went through a provincial election, as we went through, the election in The United States, we'd have conversations. And he would set a boundary, and he'd say, listen. Over the course of time, I've come to learn that this isn't good for me. And I ruminate, and I can't stop thinking about it.
Mike Gawliuk:And so making the choice not to have this conversation, which was, like, groundbreaking, and and I was really proud, of my friend having seen him struggle through a lot of things in his life, and and he had create he had developed that level of awareness.
Jessica Samuels:Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk:What what do you do when when you're not doing those things? Well, we get into some of the things we always talk about. Right? So, mindfulness, practicing mindfulness, physical activity, going outside, getting some fresh air. Like, those are all things that we can do to, take care of ourselves physically and, sort of remove ourselves from, the the negativity in the news that that comes with
Jessica Samuels:that. Right. Yeah. Wow. So your friend really set a boundary.
Jessica Samuels:And and I appreciate that that conversation because, you know, I can I can say, well, I'm only gonna look at my phone for this long? I'm only going to, and we have at home. It was just by default. We always had a twenty four hour news station on in the background as we made dinner, and I could just tell feel myself. And it wasn't even it wasn't even the information that they were sharing.
Jessica Samuels:It was the sound of that particular was starting to really just put me in a irksome mood. And and and so you can manage that. And then you do all the things, and then you go to work the next day or you hang out with your friends, and they're like, oh, did you hear it? And I'm like, no. I've just managed to work my way through this.
Mike Gawliuk:Now I'm thinking we may have established, because I remember back to the the one around the holidays. If Jessica's in an irksome mood, go outside for
Jessica Samuels:a while. Yeah. It's you know? Which has proven can prove difficult in the winter months and that's a whole other episode.
Mike Gawliuk:It can result in all sorts of other things. Yeah. Yeah. I
Jessica Samuels:have a little exercise room downstairs away from people. But, yeah. Yeah. Go outside and, mindfulness and all those pieces. But then there's there's some other things too that I that that that I've been practicing.
Jessica Samuels:So not just default having the the TV on, first of all, or the TV to news on. But then, you know, you go back to that idea that you wanna be informed. I don't wanna put my head in the sand because I don't want to be caught off guard by some other craziness. So one of the things that that I was doing is signing up for, like, news alerts. But I I just wanna asterisk this.
Jessica Samuels:Not the phone jump out at you. Oh my goodness. This is happening news alerts. Just old school email, like, hey. When you're ready to look at this, have a look at it.
Jessica Samuels:Yeah. And that's exactly what happens. I see that I have an email. I see it's from various news outlets. I may or may not look at the headline, and then I may or may not, you know, click to read more.
Jessica Samuels:And and this has been really helpful because I feel like I can be informed because I like to feel like I'm informed, but it feels like it's more on my time.
Mike Gawliuk:Sure.
Jessica Samuels:So and I and and through the research with this, I've actually, there's some discussion about reading the news. Mhmm. Like like
Mike Gawliuk:Versus watching.
Jessica Samuels:Difference. Yeah.
Mike Gawliuk:Yeah. The difference it can have in terms of your response. I, yeah, I found it quite surprising as well.
Jessica Samuels:Yes. So so the idea of being read it as opposed to watching it because the the the watching is that is that visual piece that we are all trained to be incorporated that to to kind of lean into, is actually, again, that piece that's that's doing us harm.
Mike Gawliuk:Well, and there was one study that was highlighted as we prepped for this, which showed that, like, within fourteen minutes of watching the news, people started to have symptoms start to show. Right? Which is, you know, cause for concern.
Jessica Samuels:I'm having symptoms just by you telling me that I've got fourteen. I feel like I should put a little timer on and be like Yeah. Like a countdown.
Mike Gawliuk:Yeah. Yep. When you hit thirteen
Jessica Samuels:Yeah.
Mike Gawliuk:You're good. Don't let it get to fifteen.
Jessica Samuels:Don't get let to fifteen. Go for a walk.
Mike Gawliuk:It'll get irksome. And then watch out.
Jessica Samuels:Well and and and adding levity is important too. So some some good tips there in terms of managing, your information intake. How do we know, Mike, when it's it's gone to be too much? So how do I know when, you know, my walk in my neighborhood or some mindfulness or yoga or or or journaling, is is not gonna cut it in terms of managing my anxiety, my stress and and leading into depression when it comes to these uncertain times.
Mike Gawliuk:Yeah. Well, I mean, you're gonna notice changes that are prolonged. Right? We've talked about depression before, and you look at things like, you know, appetite, and whether there's a significant change there, sleep, mood, like irritability, low mood, the inability to focus. I've noticed that that I've had some of that going on recently, and I don't think it's just due to my age.
Mike Gawliuk:So there's a number of physical symptoms. The part that we need to pay attention to is, again, here and there, that's normal. When they become a repetitive pattern, when they start to show up for periods of time, and when they start to negatively impact your day to day functioning, that's probably the time that you wanna consider, looking at alternatives that that go beyond, you know, the mindfulness and the going outside, and that can include, you know, speaking to a professional.
Jessica Samuels:And you mentioned off the top as well if you're somebody who already struggles or experiences mental illness, depression, these this type of of what we've been talking about today, these new cycles, this information piece, you have a higher likelihood also of being impacted.
Mike Gawliuk:Yeah. I think I I mean, in that case, I think one of the things to be aware of, and this comes back to self awareness, but what are some of the key triggers? Like, what are those things that you just know, if you see or experience, are going to be the ones that are going to potentially, set things off and then and then look for and try to plan to to address those, as they come up.
Jessica Samuels:Right. Okay. So self awareness is really key in all of this. But certainly whenever we're talking about mental health, concerns or things that can trigger it. But particularly with this on that constant information source, just being really self aware of how you're taking it in and how you're feeling.
Mike Gawliuk:Yep. Yep. For sure. And then one of the things that gets talked about is embracing optimism in your life. Ah, yes.
Mike Gawliuk:Right? Whether that's with friends, whether that's with family. What what are some of the things that bring you joy? Mhmm. And to, to do some of those things.
Jessica Samuels:Mhmm.
Mike Gawliuk:Because they definitely can, help in terms of making you feel better through, what can be really trying times. Mhmm.
Jessica Samuels:You know, it just when you said that, it got me thinking about because I'm always thinking about another episodes. You know, that idea of joy or fun and, like, as adults, we don't like playing. Yeah. Right? You know, as kids, you know, like, go in your room and play.
Jessica Samuels:Go outside and play or whatever. And adults, you know, maybe we need a bit more of that. Another another episode topic for another time.
Mike Gawliuk:I think we need a whole lot more of that.
Jessica Samuels:Thanks, Mike.
Mike Gawliuk:Thank you.
Jessica Samuels:Beam Credit Union supports mental health initiatives across British Columbia because caring for each other builds stronger, more connected communities. United as one, Beam's founding credit unions now serve 190,000 members across BC.
